Sponsor |  lesoldham | Sep 14, 2007 5:49pm | Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
Rom 9:16 So then it {does} not {depend} on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
Rom 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
Act 4:27
"For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy
servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along
with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
Act 4:28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
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Sponsor | | TS-guy | Sep 14, 2007 9:39pm | 4: Some peoples kids!
1: That's a nice set of quotes. It's no different than the different Christian sects shouting bible verses at each other.
The ultimate free will is to reject God. Just because God may or not have a plan, doesn't mean one has to follow it. In fact, it's often hard for humans to even ascertain God's plan, or even if he has one for everything, which I'm not convinced of. People will believe what they want. Hence Free Will to believe what one wants. Except that, according to many Christian sects, choose wrong and your screwed! That's the part I don't get. |
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Sponsor | | AlternaDad | Sep 14, 2007 9:41pm | | I know. That was wrong. The devil made me do it. |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Sep 30, 2007 3:54pm | | To some degree we decide free will must exist because our friends and relatives are not believers but we also believe that God is impartial. Therefore we hope they will change their minds and we think they are able to do so. As Ts-guy mentioned we also feel we are free to reject God. Our definition of free will is about not being coerced by God and has nothing to do with cause and effect. |
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|  JRyanStevens | Oct 1, 2007 3:21pm | | An omnipotent god gets what he wants... at all times. Unless of course what he wants is to not get what he wants. Then he gets it... and explodes. (unless he doesn't want to...) |
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| | Haps | Oct 1, 2007 7:56pm | | 8, Kind of off topic but that reminds me of an amusing way I heard the Hindu conception of God or Brahman described... the idea being that if you could have any dream you wanted, you would start out dreaming rather hedonistically. Sex, drugs, etc with no consequences. It would only be a matter of time before that got boring so eventually you'd start adding more and more risks to add the element of surprise. Soon, even that would not be enough so you would make it so that you weren't even able to tell that you were dreaming. If that continued long enough, you would end up where we are now. In other words, their conception of God is that we are all God dreaming that we're not because it's more fun that way. After all, eventually we'll wake up so it's no big deal, right? :) |
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Philosophy of Religion → Discussion